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there's this thing it's

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aliveness what is that feeling to be

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alive we see it we feel it I think

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everybody has that experience I do I

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don't know I don't need to make it

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Universal but I just have these moments

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where I can feel the aliveness in the

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world around me

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think about that morning in the spring

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when the peepers first

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start or think about the middle of

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summer when you hear the Crickets going

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like those are both being embedded in

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the aliveness of the

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world but then coming in closer to home

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I have this experience

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of being in groups with other people

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where there's an explosive

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aliveness playing music together when

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the Groove is

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hit I mean there are sometimes in work

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environments you go into a meeting and

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it's not one of those boring meetings

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that people say ideas come to die it's

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the meeting where you are on the the

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purpose of your work together is active

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and you come out of there exploding into

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I'm doing this I'm doing that I'm doing

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this there are moments in athletics like

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when you're on a team and you just

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complete the path and you can see the

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hole and your other teammates and

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the rules of the game are there in play

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and it's just incredible joy for me it's

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Ultimate Frisbee like you just run and

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you catch that and you see that person

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and you dodge the other it's just it's

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there's such an

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aliveness and so the purpose of my work

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is to increase that in the world and to

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work to shift the ways in which the

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patterns that we've lived together have

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forced us into the deadening into the

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alienation into the drudgery somehow

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we've gotten oursel into a place where

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we're on a spiral in the other way from

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aliveness there's a lot of names for it

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Supremacy Consciousness dominance

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hierarchies some people say capitalism

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in the world they think it's that

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although some people think capitalism is

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the greatest thing in the world what is

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it what is that feeling of oh they call

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it the rat race what is that how is it

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that we've come to create patterns for

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how we live together that's a rat race

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and we've even bought that that's like

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NE necessary that's what the world looks

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like rats they only do a rat race if you

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put them in a

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maze rats actually are pretty cool

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creatures if you don't put them in a

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maze and uh they live a life like all

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the other creatures in the world of

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exploration and sure sustenance finding

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food and but they have a sociality and a

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joy together they

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play they wouldn't be in a race if they

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weren't put in that place and I think

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that's true for us too in 2000 my dad

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sent me a little manuscript called money

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and interest or something like that by

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mcgree Kennedy and I read this

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thing and I'm like holy

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crap I didn't know that this is the way

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it worked I didn't know that this was

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the pattern of our monetary system and I

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didn't understand

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that that

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pattern the way money is brought into

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existence on the basis of debt I didn't

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realize the consequences of that and so

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there was this explosion

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of we create Rules of Engagement rules

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of the game that we play by they're like

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at the bottom that you don't even see

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them and they spin out and the

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consequences for all of our life

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together in the world are is astonishing

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over time it's like the the way it

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evolves out from those basic rules of

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the

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game that was my aha moment and I'm like

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wow and because we created these rules

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of the game we can create different

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rules of the

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game but then then the thing

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was oh and what if the rules of the

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game was a way of spinning out rules of

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the games like you jump a level you

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increase the capacity to express new

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types of game together because just

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coming up with some new game is not

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going to do it that one is also going to

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spin out one

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whole way that doesn't work well so this

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was an intellectual moment for me but it

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came from this this realization

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of how we live together is so governed

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by what happens if you issue money on

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the basis of

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debt and I'm not a conspiracy theory

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person like there are people over in the

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out in the world who

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are Jackal Island and whatever whatever

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like that's baloney to me I mean sure

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things happen people conspire but we

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don't live inside of a a world of that

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and we live in the world of flies

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landing on

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heads I know that was a big moment for

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me then my dad sent me another book he

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sent me Bernard's book and I read that

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and Bernard was like as one of the

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architects of the Euro and seeing the

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collapses and all the rest as as a

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natural consequence of this pattern and

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thinking about what other ways we could

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do this and then my dad sent me a third

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book Richard dwe an Ecology of money I

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think is what it was and so then that

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led to a bunch of work on thinking about

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alternate patterns there but then that

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made me realize that oh no it's it

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really is this bigger game of what is

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the

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language what are the templates the

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patterns by which we spin these things

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into

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existence like people really we we all

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have the experience of this in the realm

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of language so we know that we can talk

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about a lot of different things we can

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talk about our love lives we can talk

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about doing the dishes we can talk we

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can create plans for the future we can

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tell stories of the past we can speak

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poems all of these things live on top of

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what we call

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language and I think we all recognize

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that it's possible to say a lot of the

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same things that we say in language

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other ways and in fact we you see in the

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animal

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kingdom we see in the rest of the world

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that that a lot of the same things are

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spoken about love life is spoken about

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warnings about things in the future

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spoken about you know you have shrieks

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you have cries you have all these kinds

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of vocalizations or you have changing

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body parts or raised feathers you have

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these things but those don't live in a

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generalized frame of

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language or if they they they don't live

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in as generalized a frame as language

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they're much more oneoff signal systems

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and we can see the the gradient the

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range of how you can talk about things

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with individual signals and then you can

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also talk about things because you've

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got an underlying thing we call grammar

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subject

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predicate object right you can

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actually use that to talk about so many

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things because we know what a noun is

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what a verb is uh we have prepositions

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that creates a composability of

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expression the power of adding in a

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grammar then this capacity to share

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meaning together explodes because we

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have that grammar and I would like to

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say that that pattern of a capacity

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exploding in power because there is

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something

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grammatic that's the big

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deal and so we can give more examples of

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that

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right

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neurons they're this this incredible

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thing of being able to send a signal by

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over a biological distance like a large

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distance in a body neurons are used for

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all kinds of purposes in bodies they're

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a kind of grammatic unit you can see how

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having that assemblable unit is a

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grammatic unit that creates the capacity

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for large bodies to coordinate well

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money the issuance of money debt

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mechanisms interest all these things are

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grammatical units for sharing value

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across space and time people really like

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Alexander's pattern languages this is a

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grammatics of how to create spaces that

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really work for people so for me then

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the question is what is a grammatics of

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grammatics how do you create grammars

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for lots of different purposes that's

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what I would get up out of out of bed

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for for that because it seems like

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that's where the power for change is

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every time in the history of the

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universe where there's significant

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change it's because there's a new thing

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that is like that I call it a grammatic

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capacity

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that's what DNA is it's a grammar that

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expresses living beings into existence

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and on top of the parts of DNA the

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lowlevel parts of DNA there's other

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grammars that are built on top of that

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genomics that's an assembly of a bunch

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of this smaller grammar for assembling

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proteins and creating little cells but

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then there's grammars on top of that of

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genes that Express traits inside that

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and then there's complex interactions of

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these grammars that allow certain of

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that to be turned on with epigenetics

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and we don't really understand all of it

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but I am quite convinced that it is

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grammatic in shape that's what keeps

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happening so if you want it from the

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point of view of a story think about

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this ball that we live on floating in

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space it looked One Way hard and

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cold then DNA came

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along now the that cold hard body is

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just like covered in fuzz

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it's covered in life on aliveness and

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the whole planet is shifted the planet

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was like it's full of oxygen this most

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toxic material that like is highly

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active that's because of life life is a

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geological Force that's big

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change then you can jump up the other

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stack humans and their own language are

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our ability to speak that grammar is

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what creates culture and creates our

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ability to coordinate with each other to

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play these social games together that

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have also allowed us to be the big

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operators on the planet we are also a

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geological Force I learned that in

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sometime in the 60s this is in my

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geology class in college my professor

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said I I think it was the 60s I don't

258
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remember the exact date he said there

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was that point is where humans started

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moving more physical material than all

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of the rivers in the world we move more

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matter than all of the rivers in the

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world you know the Amazon the

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Nile the Tigres and the Euphrates these

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are huge amounts of of matter is moved

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down them we move more

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because we coordinate because we have

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language so if you want change which I

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think we need if we want to survive I

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think that most of us would agree that

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that's the case then maybe it's time to

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have some kind of new grammatic capacity

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for coordinating and behaving together

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in ways that aren't self-terminating

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so the universe already feels really

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alive to me if you just look at it from

277
00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,760
the point of view of supernovas and

278
00:11:58,519 --> 00:12:01,639
expanding

279
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:04,639
galaxies that like it's such a beautiful

280
00:12:01,639 --> 00:12:08,519
thing even without what we call life it

281
00:12:04,639 --> 00:12:10,279
has this kind of be beautiful pattern

282
00:12:08,519 --> 00:12:12,959
and it operates according to the grammar

283
00:12:10,279 --> 00:12:15,959
of chemistry according to the grammar of

284
00:12:12,959 --> 00:12:18,839
U all of that grammatics I choose to

285
00:12:15,959 --> 00:12:23,440
look at it that way

286
00:12:18,839 --> 00:12:26,199
life DNA and genomics creates expression

287
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:29,480
into being all of these different forms

288
00:12:26,199 --> 00:12:31,800
of biological beings that get to

289
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:35,760
co-evolve together and create more and

290
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:39,880
more explosion more surface area more

291
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:42,120
places to play and invent how we fit

292
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:45,360
together that's what a thriving

293
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:46,880
ecosystem seems to look like and we know

294
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,600
we know that it works because it's been

295
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,440
here for it's been here for a billion

296
00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,440
years and it keeps expanding into stuff

297
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:55,000
it was very simple it was an ocean full

298
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,440
of Aly for a while and now it's a planet

299
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,920
full of people doing all kinds of weird

300
00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,360
things and all of the other things

301
00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:02,880
around there that feels like aliveness

302
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,639
to me but we know that it's also

303
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,279
self-terminating

304
00:13:04,639 --> 00:13:09,480
because the pattern that we've used to

305
00:13:07,279 --> 00:13:12,600
expand across

306
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:14,880
space is one of dominance hierarchies

307
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:18,760
it's a kind of the actual pattern of

308
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:23,399
living together is a Supremacy

309
00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:24,959
hierarchy that ends up collapsing a lot

310
00:13:23,399 --> 00:13:27,639
of

311
00:13:24,959 --> 00:13:30,120
the the fuel for aliveness I don't know

312
00:13:27,639 --> 00:13:32,120
the power it gets Central ized into the

313
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,600
top of the pyramid it's just it's like

314
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,399
it's pretty obvious that's what it looks

315
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:40,079
like and so for

316
00:13:36,399 --> 00:13:41,800
me the question is how do we create

317
00:13:40,079 --> 00:13:44,079
something that is like DNA for

318
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:46,160
biological organisms but for social

319
00:13:44,079 --> 00:13:47,519
bodies so that we're not just living by

320
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,560
this one pattern of dominance

321
00:13:47,519 --> 00:13:52,519
hierarchies which is pretty much all we

322
00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:54,120
know how to do when the numbers get big

323
00:13:52,519 --> 00:13:56,639
the thing that I was saying at the

324
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:59,240
before when we were talking about the

325
00:13:56,639 --> 00:14:01,320
aliveness of being in a jazz band or

326
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:03,720
soccer team or sitting around the

327
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:06,279
campfire singing or that kind of

328
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,800
belonging that togetherness that we feel

329
00:14:06,279 --> 00:14:10,000
we really know how to do that well in

330
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,320
small groups we do not know how to do

331
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:14,440
that in large

332
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:16,959
groups so you say what does it look like

333
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:21,639
it looks

334
00:14:16,959 --> 00:14:24,399
like so here's a body right this is a

335
00:14:21,639 --> 00:14:24,399
trillion

336
00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:35,040
unit system right my cells are not in a

337
00:14:30,079 --> 00:14:37,120
Supremacy hierarchy they are in this a a

338
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:41,120
collective collaborative collective

339
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:44,440
intelligence that it doesn't put doesn't

340
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,440
pit the individual against the

341
00:14:44,839 --> 00:14:51,519
group it's not it's not a sacrifice the

342
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,399
individual to the group it's not the the

343
00:14:51,519 --> 00:14:56,279
individual that gets Supremacy over the

344
00:14:53,399 --> 00:14:57,839
group The the ways in which we look at

345
00:14:56,279 --> 00:15:00,279
the competing of our political

346
00:14:57,839 --> 00:15:04,800
hierarchies tend to be around that

347
00:15:00,279 --> 00:15:04,800
Dynamic it's not that it's kind of

348
00:15:05,079 --> 00:15:11,160
a a place where being together and

349
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:13,800
having agency are not at

350
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:17,920
odds so to me that's what I'm looking

351
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:19,759
for is what is it that we can do what

352
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:23,759
are the

353
00:15:19,759 --> 00:15:25,560
patterns that allow us to express into

354
00:15:23,759 --> 00:15:29,600
being social

355
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:31,399
forms Rules of Engagement

356
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,680
so that that can evolve because I don't

357
00:15:31,399 --> 00:15:34,279
know what that looks like it's an

358
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,759
evolutionary process and it will keep

359
00:15:34,279 --> 00:15:37,440
expanding out but we don't have an

360
00:15:35,759 --> 00:15:39,720
underlying substrate in which to express

361
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:43,120
into being social

362
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:46,880
organisms why is creating social fabric

363
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,880
a response to the deadness of the

364
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:53,959
world it almost feels to me like the

365
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:55,639
question the answer to that question is

366
00:15:53,959 --> 00:16:00,759
self-evident

367
00:15:55,639 --> 00:16:02,880
like we live inside a social fabric

368
00:16:00,759 --> 00:16:06,560
we live inside a social fabric this

369
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:08,759
social fabric means that I got to earn a

370
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:11,399
living that is part of the Rules of

371
00:16:08,759 --> 00:16:15,160
Engagement it's in the language I got to

372
00:16:11,399 --> 00:16:18,160
earn a living really is that the social

373
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:21,560
fabric we should be living in let me try

374
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:23,720
it a different way I'm really suspicious

375
00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:26,440
of people who say I know what the answer

376
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:29,040
is this is how we should be together we

377
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:31,319
should use everybody should use

378
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,959
sociocracy if we all had circles where

379
00:16:31,319 --> 00:16:35,519
the other Circle responds to the other

380
00:16:32,959 --> 00:16:39,440
thing that would make it

381
00:16:35,519 --> 00:16:45,759
better or I have the answer I will make

382
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:47,839
women safe I am your strong man or

383
00:16:45,759 --> 00:16:49,959
Anarchy we should all be doing whatever

384
00:16:47,839 --> 00:16:52,800
we want to do right those are all

385
00:16:49,959 --> 00:16:56,800
instances of examples of how to solve a

386
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:59,720
particular problem I don't trust any of

387
00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:02,120
them I totally trust them in certain

388
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:06,000
contexts and for certain people that is

389
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:07,919
the right answer I get it you are afraid

390
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,880
of your job being taken away and you

391
00:17:07,919 --> 00:17:11,679
need somebody to protect you you will

392
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:14,000
respond to a person who's strong who

393
00:17:11,679 --> 00:17:15,720
will do that that's right for you I get

394
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,720
it you want to participate in all these

395
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:20,120
different levels and you want to have

396
00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:23,240
lots of um everybody being

397
00:17:20,120 --> 00:17:25,400
heard great that's right for you

398
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,880
sociocracy you want to be able to be

399
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,400
completely independent and run around

400
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,200
and bounce off the walls and live in an

401
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:33,120
emergency B I get it that's right for

402
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,840
you social fabric to me is the weaving

403
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:37,559
together of all of these different ways

404
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:39,960
of being such that things are coherent

405
00:17:37,559 --> 00:17:44,160
and I don't know the answer of how to

406
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:47,600
build that therefore what must exist is

407
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:50,840
a higher level context that allows us to

408
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:54,080
experiment and evolve and play with

409
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:56,039
these different forms in a coherent way

410
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:58,679
it's got to jump up a level you have to

411
00:17:56,039 --> 00:18:00,720
be able to have a language a grammar in

412
00:17:58,679 --> 00:18:02,960
which which to express these different

413
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:05,520
forms of sociality so you can assemble

414
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,880
them into being with some kind of

415
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,039
constraints that they can then

416
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,360
interoperate and work together right

417
00:18:09,039 --> 00:18:12,760
it's not going to be it can't be a

418
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:14,000
free-for-all you or it can it is right

419
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,039
now right you just have them and they

420
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:18,960
get tumbled against each other but if

421
00:18:16,039 --> 00:18:21,280
you have a grammatics a sensible way and

422
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:23,880
you understand

423
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:26,520
the like what I like to use is the word

424
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:29,039
dimensionality if you understand the

425
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:32,400
forms of what's different about about

426
00:18:29,039 --> 00:18:34,799
these systems like how much Authority is

427
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:37,080
there how much freedom is there how much

428
00:18:34,799 --> 00:18:38,480
what types of connection are there what

429
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,960
are the forms of

430
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,559
membranes in which people can enter in

431
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,799
or out of a group if you understand

432
00:18:43,559 --> 00:18:48,559
these questions that differentiate

433
00:18:45,799 --> 00:18:51,000
different types of social interaction

434
00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:55,720
and then you create a grammatic space

435
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:58,520
that holds those kinds of differences so

436
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,960
that you can experiment and play with

437
00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,480
okay in our organization we're going to

438
00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:02,840
have three kinds of teams we're going to

439
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,360
have a governance team that operates

440
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,840
according to this we're going to have an

441
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:08,480
evolutionary team that um is finding an

442
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,159
adapting to the environment and we're

443
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,640
going to have another team that you know

444
00:19:10,159 --> 00:19:15,640
if you can actually build that together

445
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:17,520
and you can represent it in tooling that

446
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:20,640
is weaving together social Fabric and

447
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:22,360
that the the space of being able to hold

448
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:25,320
that together and know what the heck

449
00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:28,480
we're talking about that that seems to

450
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:31,520
me like how it has to go because none of

451
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:35,080
us knows the specific answer but we can

452
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:36,919
possibly see the ways of which we could

453
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,760
express particular answers and have

454
00:19:36,919 --> 00:19:40,960
those particular answers play

455
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:43,039
together and evolve

456
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:45,559
that that seems like it's where the

457
00:19:43,039 --> 00:19:46,960
solution goes when you don't know the

458
00:19:45,559 --> 00:19:48,720
answer to a specific thing you have to

459
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,120
have a framework within which to play

460
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,960
with possible

461
00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:54,679
solutions that's what moves us from

462
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:57,880
Collective stupidity to collective

463
00:19:54,679 --> 00:19:59,480
intelligence the answer arises out of

464
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:02,240
the experiments

465
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:04,039
yeah but the thing is yeah so if the

466
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:06,679
answer arises out of the experiments

467
00:20:04,039 --> 00:20:09,440
there has to be something that can

468
00:20:06,679 --> 00:20:13,480
contain experimentation that creates

469
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:15,280
enough safety to do that also so what

470
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:19,240
we're talking about here is evolutionary

471
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:22,679
capacity how can systems grow well my

472
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:25,400
story is that evolution is a consequence

473
00:20:22,679 --> 00:20:29,120
of there being a grammar so when there

474
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:32,679
is a pattern a template that allow ows

475
00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:35,360
for constraint and

476
00:20:32,679 --> 00:20:38,039
expression whether that is expressing

477
00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:41,360
biological beings into existence through

478
00:20:38,039 --> 00:20:43,720
DNA or whether that is expressing

479
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:47,640
molecules into existence through

480
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:50,640
veence electron bonding or whether that

481
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:53,080
is through expressing cultures into

482
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:55,679
existence because people can

483
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:57,960
talk these are different levels of a

484
00:20:55,679 --> 00:20:59,280
grammar that allows kinds of Expressions

485
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,320
into exist

486
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:03,880
and then there's an ecosystem that will

487
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,039
test those expressions against each

488
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,200
other and different realities will

489
00:21:06,039 --> 00:21:12,480
emerge out of them that's what evolution

490
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:14,880
is it is a creating of a fit a fitting

491
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:17,520
together inside a space of

492
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:20,039
expression that comes from a particular

493
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,039
grammatics that can hold and constrain

494
00:21:20,039 --> 00:21:23,760
those

495
00:21:21,039 --> 00:21:26,840
expressions to me I don't feel like this

496
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:29,679
is a utopic vision it's not like oh

497
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:32,679
everything will be fine

498
00:21:29,679 --> 00:21:35,440
um I won't have to go to work I won't

499
00:21:32,679 --> 00:21:37,039
have to do things I don't like to do

500
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,279
it's not about

501
00:21:37,039 --> 00:21:40,840
that I'm not sure quite why I want to

502
00:21:39,279 --> 00:21:42,679
defend against that but I think a lot of

503
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,679
times when we when you say what would it

504
00:21:42,679 --> 00:21:46,400
look like the thing that we get is some

505
00:21:44,679 --> 00:21:49,279
kind of like dancing through the lies

506
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:54,039
and picking the fruit off the trees and

507
00:21:49,279 --> 00:21:58,000
so on no I think there will always be

508
00:21:54,039 --> 00:21:59,039
entropic struggles right the the world

509
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:03,000
Falls

510
00:21:59,039 --> 00:22:06,200
heart and we are we are

511
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:09,480
collecting um

512
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:12,720
order from the world we are

513
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:14,799
taking but there's this cycle of like

514
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:18,520
what it feels to me

515
00:22:14,799 --> 00:22:21,640
like when you're together and you know

516
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,640
that your contribution is

517
00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:28,720
useful when you can be yourself but you

518
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:31,559
can belong

519
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:34,559
that kind of feeling is what I want at

520
00:22:31,559 --> 00:22:34,559
the large Civic

521
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:41,080
scale that's what it would feel like

522
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:44,600
it's like I can be myself and I can

523
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:47,080
belong I can contribute I know where I

524
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:51,600
can be responsible

525
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:53,919
to but it's not all on me I'm part of it

526
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,919
all

527
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,120
holding and I know that we have that

528
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,960
experience we have the experience of

529
00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:02,080
when that the case we have flashes of

530
00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:05,159
that but it sure doesn't feel to me like

531
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:07,400
that's what our sociality that we live

532
00:23:05,159 --> 00:23:10,360
in today is headed for it feels like

533
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:13,760
it's all designed around polarization

534
00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:16,559
about us versus them and that just

535
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,559
doesn't feel

536
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:23,520
good I think what I want to do is I want

537
00:23:19,559 --> 00:23:25,320
to just tell the story of my story of

538
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,919
looking at what what has happened with

539
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:31,320
the evolution of the internet and what

540
00:23:27,919 --> 00:23:33,240
what shows up for me so when I look at

541
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,880
the internet which is a big word right a

542
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:38,400
lot of things are inside that bubble

543
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:40,159
what is the internet well for me the

544
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:43,080
core of what the internet is is What's

545
00:23:40,159 --> 00:23:47,840
called the IP protocol the Internet

546
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:51,240
Protocol that protocol what was that

547
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:53,440
that led to what we have right now well

548
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:57,360
my story is that what that was is the

549
00:23:53,440 --> 00:24:00,159
first time on the planet when you could

550
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:02,760
send a message from one place to another

551
00:24:00,159 --> 00:24:04,919
without there being a per message

552
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:07,960
cost before

553
00:24:04,919 --> 00:24:11,000
that there was always a per message cost

554
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,840
a telegram a phone call the cost might

555
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,679
be you take it yourself and walk over so

556
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:17,400
your biological cost of moving from one

557
00:24:14,679 --> 00:24:20,000
place to another and even previous

558
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,960
digital networks they would include in

559
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,399
the protocol of sending a packet of data

560
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:27,320
from one place to another the

561
00:24:24,399 --> 00:24:29,440
cost how many hops whatever that was

562
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:32,039
part of the protocol but the designers

563
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:35,360
of the Internet Protocol through either

564
00:24:32,039 --> 00:24:38,159
conscious choice or Serendipity removed

565
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:40,440
pricing from the protocol so what

566
00:24:38,159 --> 00:24:41,840
happened is that it was possible to send

567
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,559
a message from one place on the planet

568
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:46,039
to another place on the planet without

569
00:24:43,559 --> 00:24:48,840
there being a per message cost and the

570
00:24:46,039 --> 00:24:50,880
cost is just simply having the

571
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,880
infrastructure owning the computers and

572
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,600
being connected up to infrastructure so

573
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,679
there may be monthly costs there

574
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,000
certainly the cost of buying the

575
00:24:55,679 --> 00:25:00,200
computer or you know whatever that was

576
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,720
and there ear early early days of that

577
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:05,760
it was mostly in institutional costs

578
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:08,039
that were bearing it that was world

579
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:10,399
changing but interestingly it's world

580
00:25:08,039 --> 00:25:13,279
changing mostly for technical folks

581
00:25:10,399 --> 00:25:16,080
because to create a specific use of that

582
00:25:13,279 --> 00:25:17,880
capacity was to use the Internet

583
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,120
Protocol in some way and figure out what

584
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,159
message you're going to send over your

585
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:24,880
packet that was a technical

586
00:25:21,159 --> 00:25:26,000
task so that was step one step two give

587
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,039
this

588
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:31,399
capacity in general to everybody

589
00:25:29,039 --> 00:25:34,399
how was that accomplished well that was

590
00:25:31,399 --> 00:25:37,799
accomplished by building some protocols

591
00:25:34,399 --> 00:25:40,080
technical protocols on top of the IP

592
00:25:37,799 --> 00:25:41,720
protocol and there's technical names for

593
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,600
it so for people who are technical it

594
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:47,720
was rfc822 which was the internet

595
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:49,559
message format protocol it was SMTP the

596
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,360
simple mail transfer protocol those are

597
00:25:49,559 --> 00:25:54,159
the two critical ones the built on top

598
00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:56,960
of Ip that meant that all of a sudden

599
00:25:54,159 --> 00:26:00,000
everybody as long as they had a computer

600
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:02,240
and they had an email client they could

601
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,399
send a message to anybody else without

602
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:08,640
there being a per message

603
00:26:04,399 --> 00:26:10,360
cost that is a tremendous thing take the

604
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,120
cost of something that's very valuable

605
00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:13,919
and move it from being something that is

606
00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:16,240
per message and charge and put it onto

607
00:26:13,919 --> 00:26:19,840
the infrastructure

608
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:22,360
level so that's fun part of what happens

609
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,240
when you do that is people go oh this is

610
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:25,559
really

611
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:28,559
important what is the ecosystem that

612
00:26:25,559 --> 00:26:31,200
surrounds that new capacity and so so

613
00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:32,880
most of us had the experience of joining

614
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:36,399
at that time if you were around in that

615
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:40,279
time you you got on AOL or you got on

616
00:26:36,399 --> 00:26:42,000
Genie or you got on a number of other

617
00:26:40,279 --> 00:26:44,399
internet service

618
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,120
providers although they didn't even call

619
00:26:44,399 --> 00:26:48,840
themselves that really or they kind of

620
00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:51,279
did but they were giving you access to

621
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:54,240
email this capacity and they were adding

622
00:26:51,279 --> 00:26:56,880
value around that so my favorite example

623
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:59,159
of this is AOL it added all kinds of

624
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,360
value around that it added on AOL

625
00:26:59,159 --> 00:27:04,520
keywords and which got you to these

626
00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:06,880
rooms where they could charge companies

627
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:09,039
to put their content into those rooms

628
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,159
and you could see things and it looked

629
00:27:09,039 --> 00:27:13,679
kind of like the web looks today but it

630
00:27:11,159 --> 00:27:15,919
was owned and managed by AOL and they

631
00:27:13,679 --> 00:27:18,720
had chat rooms right also something that

632
00:27:15,919 --> 00:27:20,919
we have on the web now but that was all

633
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:24,440
owned and it was enclosed it was value

634
00:27:20,919 --> 00:27:24,440
added around this open

635
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:30,120
protocol and it's so funny to me because

636
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:32,559
the the story keeps going here that AOL

637
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:34,080
they thought they were a Content company

638
00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:36,279
and they were so successful in this

639
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:39,000
model um that they were able to buy Time

640
00:27:36,279 --> 00:27:41,679
Warner a content provider so here we

641
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,159
have this pattern we have a open

642
00:27:41,679 --> 00:27:44,799
protocol which is what most people

643
00:27:43,159 --> 00:27:47,000
really wanted about all these early

644
00:27:44,799 --> 00:27:49,159
internet service providers and then you

645
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:53,279
had other good value that was added

646
00:27:49,159 --> 00:27:55,640
around it what came next in this

647
00:27:53,279 --> 00:27:59,080
Evolution what came next

648
00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:01,600
was let's drop the price

649
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:04,159
the let's remove the per unit

650
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,360
price from

651
00:28:04,159 --> 00:28:08,120
publication publication like sending

652
00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:10,200
messages used to be something that

653
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:12,880
always had a perun cost you had a

654
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,679
publisher that you would send your your

655
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,320
book to and they would create a book and

656
00:28:14,679 --> 00:28:19,200
print it out and so you had to buy a

657
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:21,519
book it's per unit cost or you have an

658
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,880
advertisement or any of anything that

659
00:28:21,519 --> 00:28:24,399
you wanted to published to the world was

660
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:29,519
a per unit

661
00:28:24,399 --> 00:28:33,679
cost that was dropped to zero by an

662
00:28:29,519 --> 00:28:36,640
addition on top of the Internet

663
00:28:33,679 --> 00:28:39,720
Protocol then this is three more

664
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:41,799
protocols HTTP which we all type in

665
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:44,799
front of our URLs the hypertext transfer

666
00:28:41,799 --> 00:28:48,200
protocol HTML the hypertext markup

667
00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:50,200
language and the URL the the the

668
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:53,679
universal resource locator that points

669
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:56,799
to a web page that allows them to be

670
00:28:53,679 --> 00:29:01,559
accessed those three things drop the

671
00:28:56,799 --> 00:29:01,559
price of publication to just the

672
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:09,399
infrastructure changed the

673
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:13,000
world this pattern we're in the middle

674
00:29:09,399 --> 00:29:15,320
of a phase that's kind of like the phase

675
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:18,200
where AOL thought it was a Content

676
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:22,240
company where a bunch of companies have

677
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:27,120
added value around this set of protocols

678
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:28,360
known as the web HTML HTTP and the URL

679
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,440
plus a bunch of other ones but also

680
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:33,159
evolved to make that better we're in the

681
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:37,799
phase where another really critical

682
00:29:33,159 --> 00:29:40,760
capacity is being provided by companies

683
00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:43,720
who can charge for it who for whom they

684
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:46,080
can enclose that value just the same way

685
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,640
that AOL thought that it can enclose the

686
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,000
value of publication and make that be

687
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,600
its own special sauce and make tons of

688
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:54,320
money off of it but that was broken up

689
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:56,399
by the web we're in the phase right now

690
00:29:54,320 --> 00:30:00,600
where there's a whole host of companies

691
00:29:56,399 --> 00:30:02,840
that have done a very similar thing now

692
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:06,320
what is that thing what is that

693
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:08,559
value that is super valuable that these

694
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:12,159
companies have put in the middle because

695
00:30:08,559 --> 00:30:12,159
it doesn't exist in an open

696
00:30:14,399 --> 00:30:21,200
protocol that

697
00:30:17,039 --> 00:30:23,480
value that pattern is this ability to

698
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,559
work together and to collaborate

699
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,519
together the capacity to publish

700
00:30:25,559 --> 00:30:28,840
documents is a very interesting one

701
00:30:27,519 --> 00:30:30,440
because one of the things that you can

702
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,720
publish inside those documents is

703
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:35,120
computer

704
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,840
code and so we can make our web browsers

705
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,240
do all kinds of really interesting

706
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:41,760
things that are really useful to us

707
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:46,960
because a company can publish computer

708
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:49,279
software that um creates all kinds of

709
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:53,600
really useful tooling so let's think

710
00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:57,720
about Google and the way it's given us

711
00:30:53,600 --> 00:31:00,240
Gmail and Google suite and Google Drive

712
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:05,080
and and uh Google

713
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:07,880
Docs there's all this ability to work

714
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,639
together in Google suite and to

715
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,760
collaborate together that they have

716
00:31:09,639 --> 00:31:14,679
provided because you can ship that as

717
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,639
software to your web browser and use it

718
00:31:14,679 --> 00:31:18,559
similarly think about a bunch of the

719
00:31:16,639 --> 00:31:21,519
other collaboration tools that ex that

720
00:31:18,559 --> 00:31:23,559
exist out there in business if you use

721
00:31:21,519 --> 00:31:26,039
if you want to do uh project management

722
00:31:23,559 --> 00:31:27,600
you might be using Trello or jira these

723
00:31:26,039 --> 00:31:29,960
are companies that have taken this

724
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:33,639
ability ability to work together and

725
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:36,080
ship the software through the ability of

726
00:31:33,639 --> 00:31:37,600
the web to publish that software to your

727
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,360
browser and

728
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:43,240
interact but here's the trick here's the

729
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:47,960
thing those companies are sitting in the

730
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:52,279
middle of your social group or the team

731
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:55,519
or whatever group of people are trying

732
00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:57,120
to operate by the rules of engagement

733
00:31:55,519 --> 00:31:59,799
that that capacity of that software

734
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:02,799
affords

735
00:31:59,799 --> 00:32:04,000
so just like AOL sat in the middle of

736
00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:06,519
providing

737
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:09,000
content the most valuable companies in

738
00:32:06,519 --> 00:32:11,720
the world are sitting in the middle of

739
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:14,240
providing spaces for social

740
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,799
engagement so the next step in the

741
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:20,440
evolution is to create an open protocol

742
00:32:16,799 --> 00:32:23,039
that removes that cost or that removes

743
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:26,320
that enclosure by an intermediary and

744
00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:28,159
puts that back down on the

745
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:31,480
infrastructure and that's what we've

746
00:32:28,159 --> 00:32:33,519
done with Hol chain Hol chain is like

747
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:36,480
the IP protocol but instead of about

748
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:39,080
sending messages to individuals at the

749
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:41,919
technical level ho chain is about

750
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:45,159
creating a space of for Rules of

751
00:32:41,919 --> 00:32:47,600
Engagement that is held by the players

752
00:32:45,159 --> 00:32:50,880
who are playing by those Rules of

753
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:53,360
Engagement no

754
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:56,240
intermediary out of that

755
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:58,600
capacity all right no longer a cost to

756
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:01,080
be paid for doing that and just a little

757
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,919
um a side note on the cost I was using

758
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,000
the per message cost or the per

759
00:33:02,919 --> 00:33:06,760
publication cost before thinking about

760
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:09,159
you know you pay a dollar a stamp for

761
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:12,039
that there are many forms of

762
00:33:09,159 --> 00:33:14,480
cost in the world that we play in right

763
00:33:12,039 --> 00:33:17,279
now with websites the cost is usually

764
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:19,600
not dollars for most of us who are just

765
00:33:17,279 --> 00:33:22,039
using Gmail it's not that's not where

766
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,120
the cost lives for companies it usually

767
00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:26,320
is dollars right for a company that a

768
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,960
group of people at any scale usually

769
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,440
larger than 20 or 30 then they start

770
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,039
saying okay now you got to pay a per

771
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,080
seat cost for all of your employees

772
00:33:32,039 --> 00:33:36,360
because they know where the money is but

773
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,720
for us who are not for those of us who

774
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,000
are not in a company and we're not

775
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:42,960
paying the cost of Trello or jira or

776
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:45,880
GitHub or whatever on a per seed basis

777
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:48,919
we're paying the cost because we are the

778
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:52,039
product we get either advertised

779
00:33:48,919 --> 00:33:54,320
to or our information gets sold to other

780
00:33:52,039 --> 00:33:57,440
people for other purposes and that

781
00:33:54,320 --> 00:34:00,320
experience is it's it takes a while to

782
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:02,760
have it feel and land but it starts to

783
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:06,799
land really powerful how expensive that

784
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:08,879
is in other forms than money for us and

785
00:34:06,799 --> 00:34:10,679
similarly in in the AOL case Right End

786
00:34:08,879 --> 00:34:12,639
users they just paid a monthly cost to

787
00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:15,639
have access to everything but they were

788
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:18,280
being advertised to through AOL it's a

789
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:21,800
similar cost there okay

790
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:24,320
but back to the story about Hol chain

791
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:28,440
when you create a technical protocol

792
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:31,879
that removes the intermediary from being

793
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:34,800
able to charge costs or take

794
00:34:31,879 --> 00:34:37,119
value either by charging actual money or

795
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:39,960
by extracting value from your personal

796
00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:41,359
information or allowing you to become a

797
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,280
target of advertising and to be

798
00:34:41,359 --> 00:34:44,960
controlled extract so there what's being

799
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,800
extracted is your attention and your

800
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,000
agency attention and agency are

801
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:52,320
literally being stolen and taken from

802
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:54,440
you because it's so valuable to be able

803
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:57,280
to do things like use Google Docs and

804
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:59,920
Google spreadsheets and Gmail so we're

805
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:03,839
willing to pay that cost that's okay

806
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:05,359
right like it's okay to a certain point

807
00:35:03,839 --> 00:35:06,760
like it was totally fine that we were

808
00:35:05,359 --> 00:35:08,400
always using stamps and paying for

809
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,960
telephone calls and paying for our

810
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,560
packages to be delivered that was great

811
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,760
when we couldn't do this other thing but

812
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,800
as soon as you can do the other thing

813
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:20,400
when you can bring the cost down to the

814
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:22,599
infrastructure cost of these critical

815
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:27,800
capacities

816
00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:29,680
wow different worlds come out of that

817
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,640
so there's more to go on this right

818
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,560
because Hol chain as a technical

819
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,839
protocol that does that is a lot like IP

820
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,160
as a technical protocol that does

821
00:35:34,839 --> 00:35:39,640
messaging it's not that convenient or

822
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,400
it's really left there for technical

823
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:45,040
people to be able to then take okay I'm

824
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:46,599
going to build a particular unit of

825
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,680
Rules of Engagement and then I'm going

826
00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:50,520
to build a user interface on top of that

827
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,680
and so there's not the assemblable

828
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:55,079
framework for putting that all together

829
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,760
in the same way that IP is not the same

830
00:35:55,079 --> 00:35:58,880
as

831
00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:01,599
email so the next layer is building that

832
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,599
and that's called The

833
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:08,520
Weave so what's the difference

834
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:10,760
between the capacity to send

835
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,640
messages and putting that onto the

836
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,880
infrastructure and the capacity to

837
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:18,000
publish and putting that onto the

838
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:20,240
infrastructure well messages are really

839
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,839
point to point that is I'm sending a

840
00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:25,040
message from this computer to the other

841
00:36:21,839 --> 00:36:27,000
computer an IP packet has a destination

842
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,319
where it goes to and I guess you know if

843
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,240
you want to get technical there are

844
00:36:28,319 --> 00:36:32,079
other things where you can put mul it's

845
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:33,520
called multicast you can have a couple

846
00:36:32,079 --> 00:36:34,640
things but it's really about there's

847
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,640
this one thing and it goes from one

848
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,480
computer to the next computer and an

849
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,480
email that's kind of similar you can put

850
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,760
a couple different people in the header

851
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:46,560
right but it's it is about getting a

852
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:50,079
message from one place to another place

853
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:53,599
publication publication is about having

854
00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:56,000
an address a location at which anybody

855
00:36:53,599 --> 00:36:59,359
can go and look at what's

856
00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:00,880
there it's a different thing like when I

857
00:36:59,359 --> 00:37:03,280
publish a

858
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:05,599
book the notion is that that book is in

859
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,240
the library or in bookstores when

860
00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:09,880
there's an advertisement that's

861
00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:11,720
published on B Billboards it's like it's

862
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:14,640
there in the world and people can go see

863
00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:17,920
it and and so part of what's powerful

864
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:19,839
about the particularity of how the

865
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,440
publication infrastructure was built and

866
00:37:19,839 --> 00:37:25,760
why the web is such a great thing is

867
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:27,920
that it unites transport getting

868
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:31,200
messages from one place to another like

869
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:32,839
me being able to request something a

870
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,839
standardization of what it is that I'm

871
00:37:32,839 --> 00:37:38,960
requesting that is the URL HTTP

872
00:37:35,839 --> 00:37:41,920
colth weave. social whatever it might be

873
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:44,000
Hol chain. org that is an address at

874
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:47,599
which there are resources that I can

875
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:50,040
retrieve from that and then HTML is a

876
00:37:47,599 --> 00:37:51,760
standard format for there being all

877
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,440
kinds of content there there can be an

878
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,079
image there there can be an audio file

879
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,560
there can be text there there can be

880
00:37:55,079 --> 00:37:59,560
software there in in the form of Javas

881
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:02,040
script and there's all kinds of other

882
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:04,200
standards that make that be something

883
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:07,680
that my web browser will be able to

884
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:10,520
interpret when it pulls the message back

885
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:12,160
IP anything could be in the IP packet

886
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:16,480
there's nothing that tells what the data

887
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:18,040
is it's specifically left out email is

888
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,400
like wait let's make a little bit more

889
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,839
constraint and say this is what it's

890
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,720
going to look like there's going to be a

891
00:38:20,839 --> 00:38:24,440
subject and then there's going to be a

892
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:27,119
body I don't know what's in the body

893
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:30,480
it's just a pile of text so when you

894
00:38:27,119 --> 00:38:32,839
jump to the next level up with the

895
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:36,000
capacity to create Rules of Engagement

896
00:38:32,839 --> 00:38:39,760
to create social spaces engagement

897
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:42,119
spaces places where there is social

898
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,520
reality in the sense that we know what

899
00:38:42,119 --> 00:38:45,720
we're doing

900
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,440
together well then you have to add more

901
00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:49,319
constraint on top of that you have to

902
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,079
start with what are the rules of the

903
00:38:49,319 --> 00:38:54,560
game and that's exactly what Hol chain

904
00:38:51,079 --> 00:38:57,119
does every time that you join a social

905
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,599
space the first thing that you do is you

906
00:38:57,119 --> 00:39:00,359
say these are the rules of the game that

907
00:38:58,599 --> 00:39:02,680
we're all playing by and this is the

908
00:39:00,359 --> 00:39:06,240
technical means by which we we can

909
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:08,680
actually do this the rules of the game

910
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:10,240
are held by everybody that all everybody

911
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,119
who starts to play together knows what

912
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:13,960
the rules of the game are and whole

913
00:39:12,119 --> 00:39:16,599
chain creates the technical protocol

914
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:20,359
that adds in that capacity

915
00:39:16,599 --> 00:39:23,400
of playing a so engaging socially or

916
00:39:20,359 --> 00:39:26,520
engaging according to the some set of

917
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:28,760
rules and then social fabric comes out

918
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:32,240
of using lots of those little units of

919
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,240
Engagement and weaving them

920
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:37,040
together so earlier in our conversation

921
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:40,280
I said I'm not a person who really

922
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,800
engages in conspiracy theories um like

923
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,000
that seems like the wrong frame to look

924
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,880
look at things

925
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:48,800
through

926
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:50,079
however when you're playing by rules

927
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,760
when you've created social Fabric and

928
00:39:50,079 --> 00:39:54,560
there are rules of the game and when

929
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:56,359
you've increased your capacity to play

930
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:59,119
together by having large numbers of

931
00:39:56,359 --> 00:40:02,800
people and you have hand it over the

932
00:39:59,119 --> 00:40:04,640
capacity to to to basically do

933
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:07,000
accounting to track things you know when

934
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:09,400
you've hand it over social benefit to an

935
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:12,960
intermediary that intermediary can

936
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:15,400
collude to hide information to change

937
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:18,160
the rules that make it hard for you to

938
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,920
get benefit can enclose that capacity

939
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:22,319
for their own benefit because they're

940
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,760
selfish but they can also try to just

941
00:40:22,319 --> 00:40:25,240
make it better and better and better by

942
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:28,040
increasing the amount of resources that

943
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:29,760
they use to make things better

944
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,960
that's a thing that happens that's very

945
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:34,359
very well-meaning

946
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:35,920
it's bureaucratic bloat it's adding more

947
00:40:34,359 --> 00:40:38,040
Staffing in to make sure that we're

948
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:41,200
taking care of your tax dollars we care

949
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,680
about that in the meantime youve spent

950
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,000
all of your tax dollars on taking care

951
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,240
that we're not using our tax dollars

952
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:49,200
well right that's it's like there are

953
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:51,720
processes that happen when you have this

954
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:54,520
in when you when you are required to

955
00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:57,319
expand by having an intermediary and so

956
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:59,280
where would AOL have gone if we did

957
00:40:57,319 --> 00:41:00,760
didn't get the web for publishing how

958
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,720
big would it have been able to grow and

959
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,440
say have an editorial board that says

960
00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:08,000
well we're not going to have this AOL

961
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:10,319
keyword because it doesn't fit our

962
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,520
desires that's one of the problems of

963
00:41:10,319 --> 00:41:15,040
having publishing happen with always an

964
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:17,839
intermediary is that control of the

965
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:20,319
narrative gets held by the intermediary

966
00:41:17,839 --> 00:41:23,760
some level or another therefore the

967
00:41:20,319 --> 00:41:25,560
rules of the game are also held by and

968
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,720
controlled by the intermediaries who

969
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,720
create spaces for us to do rules of the

970
00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:31,960
game together as well-meaning as they

971
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:33,760
may be if there isn't an underlying

972
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:36,160
capacity for those people who want to

973
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:38,200
play the game to be able to play that

974
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:41,160
game directly without an

975
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:43,640
intermediary The evolutionary direction

976
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:46,680
is different decentralization is not the

977
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:49,440
answer to everything um there's always

978
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:51,200
specialization but it's curious like

979
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:54,160
what well so for me what I would want to

980
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:56,920
say is what is the grammatics of this do

981
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:58,800
we even know when do we necessarily want

982
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:01,079
inter intermediaries or not do we have

983
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:03,560
the capacity to express intermediaries

984
00:42:01,079 --> 00:42:05,200
into existence when we want them and

985
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,680
unex express them out of existence when

986
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,400
they turn out to be not so good for us

987
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,880
and what are the patterns by which we

988
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:14,040
can even detect that that's the case and

989
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:16,119
measure that kind of impact and so I

990
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:19,319
would say that until you have a

991
00:42:16,119 --> 00:42:21,920
grammatic capacity that itself is

992
00:42:19,319 --> 00:42:24,800
disintermediated so that we can be

993
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:26,559
bringing those kinds of bodies into

994
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,280
existence and playing with them we won't

995
00:42:26,559 --> 00:42:29,640
know the answer answer because frankly

996
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:34,359
we don't know the

997
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:36,880
answer curation is a critical capacity

998
00:42:34,359 --> 00:42:39,480
moderation is a critical capacity we

999
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:41,920
know what happens now that we've lived

1000
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:46,000
for quite a while with an internet in

1001
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:49,160
which unmoderated spaces devolve

1002
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,960
into well troll land right we know that

1003
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:53,599
that's sucky and so people move to

1004
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:55,680
moderated spaces where they're not just

1005
00:42:53,599 --> 00:42:57,200
going to get bombarded so for example

1006
00:42:55,680 --> 00:43:00,480
with with in Hol chain when you're

1007
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:02,599
creating a suite of um these little

1008
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:05,319
units of Rules of Engagement you can

1009
00:43:02,599 --> 00:43:06,800
create some that are hyper centralized

1010
00:43:05,319 --> 00:43:09,559
and you can say inside these rules of

1011
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:12,520
engagement this one person has all the

1012
00:43:09,559 --> 00:43:15,400
control and to play the game it's to ask

1013
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:16,960
this person what the next move is right

1014
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:20,040
that's actually really appropriate for

1015
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:22,920
example in the case of fires we have

1016
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,480
chains of command because it's so hard

1017
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,200
to know what to do if everybody's

1018
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,920
running around you want to have the fire

1019
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:30,000
chief saying you go there you go there

1020
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,599
you go there and let go of that decision

1021
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,720
because that person can see everything

1022
00:43:31,599 --> 00:43:36,480
it's really great to step into chains of

1023
00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:37,960
command in that kind of an emergency but

1024
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,839
you don't want to let the fire chief

1025
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,640
then become the police chief and also

1026
00:43:39,839 --> 00:43:44,359
the judge and also the president because

1027
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:47,000
that's silly so the question is what is

1028
00:43:44,359 --> 00:43:49,240
our capacity to play by all kinds of

1029
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,599
Rules of Engagement all kinds of times

1030
00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:53,440
with intermediation and not

1031
00:43:50,599 --> 00:43:55,640
intermediation for different purposes

1032
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,800
but so far the tech always required

1033
00:43:55,640 --> 00:44:01,520
intermediation so you always have that

1034
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:04,160
the tech being pen and paper you didn't

1035
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:06,040
have the underlying affordances of um

1036
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,839
cryptographic public key public private

1037
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,800
key signing all these things that we are

1038
00:44:07,839 --> 00:44:11,839
now using to be able to make this work

1039
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:15,079
well on a technical

1040
00:44:11,839 --> 00:44:18,200
basis okay so if you have an underlying

1041
00:44:15,079 --> 00:44:20,200
capacity to be able to create Rules of

1042
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:22,280
Engagement and run those Rules of

1043
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:24,440
Engagement so this is the abstract thing

1044
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,040
right this is like the IP protocol but

1045
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,920
for

1046
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,599
social

1047
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:32,599
interaction and and social interaction

1048
00:44:30,599 --> 00:44:34,640
let's not like social interaction is it

1049
00:44:32,599 --> 00:44:36,559
makes it feel like it's Twitter or

1050
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,720
Instagram that's not what I mean by

1051
00:44:36,559 --> 00:44:39,920
social interaction what I'm really

1052
00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:42,520
talking about is this the sociality The

1053
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:44,079
Wider fabric of being collectively

1054
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,680
intelligent together and coordinating

1055
00:44:44,079 --> 00:44:47,839
together and so let's use this term

1056
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,319
Rules of Engagement there's lots of

1057
00:44:47,839 --> 00:44:51,920
different types of Rules of Engagement

1058
00:44:49,319 --> 00:44:53,599
that one might have just like the IP

1059
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:57,079
protocol lets us have protocols for

1060
00:44:53,599 --> 00:44:59,680
sending email and sending um web packets

1061
00:44:57,079 --> 00:45:01,760
to browsers yeah so that's there's a lot

1062
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,680
of different classes of messages that

1063
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:06,079
you want to send there's a bunch of

1064
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:08,839
different classes and types of Rules of

1065
00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:11,040
Engagement and so if we're going to make

1066
00:45:08,839 --> 00:45:13,040
something that is accessible where

1067
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:15,200
that's going to take this capacity to

1068
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:18,960
have rules of engagement be held by the

1069
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:20,880
infrastructure and not be um

1070
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,520
encapsulated or proxied to the

1071
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:25,160
intermediary of the web server the

1072
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,599
company who owns the web server instead

1073
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,200
all of us together who happen to have

1074
00:45:26,599 --> 00:45:29,400
the computer Compu we start playing by

1075
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,880
these rules and they all operate

1076
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:34,359
together and share the data that's what

1077
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:36,440
the Hol chain does but how do you create

1078
00:45:34,359 --> 00:45:39,000
an integrated fabric that's really easy

1079
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:42,200
to use well that's what we've done with

1080
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:45,440
the weave in the same way that the web

1081
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:48,000
is the name that we have for the whole

1082
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:50,280
Cascade of protocols and processes that

1083
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,880
allow us to go to web browsers and pull

1084
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:54,440
data from everybody's web servers all

1085
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,920
over the world and um and be able to run

1086
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,880
all of these different cool things that

1087
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:00,680
live on the web

1088
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:03,040
The Weave is like that it's a set of

1089
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:05,880
technical protocols for bringing this

1090
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:08,520
capacity of weaving together different

1091
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:11,760
types of Rules of Engagement the being

1092
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:14,640
the doing and the the sourcing so let's

1093
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:17,079
think about that in terms of our ability

1094
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:19,160
to act together

1095
00:46:17,079 --> 00:46:21,839
collectively what would it look like to

1096
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:23,640
have the similar

1097
00:46:21,839 --> 00:46:27,640
frame and

1098
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:27,640
tooling that

1099
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:33,119
allows us to join groups basically cross

1100
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,400
the membrane of different types of

1101
00:46:33,119 --> 00:46:37,040
groups that we want to be part of create

1102
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:39,119
new groups that we want to be part of

1103
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,880
spin them up when we want to create a

1104
00:46:39,119 --> 00:46:43,680
new group oh youth us us who are here

1105
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,400
together working on this interview we

1106
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,480
need to be in a group and plan it out

1107
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,960
let's have the three of us be in the

1108
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,720
group and do all the planning well what

1109
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,760
are we going to do oh well we need a

1110
00:46:49,720 --> 00:46:53,400
bunch of different tools there that that

1111
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:56,160
do different things we need a conon

1112
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:58,599
board to organize we need a chat to be

1113
00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:00,520
able to start talking when we're apart

1114
00:46:58,599 --> 00:47:02,720
from each other and we're um just doing

1115
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,920
Interac and we need some documents where

1116
00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:06,520
we can draft out what we're going to

1117
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:08,920
draft out and we can drop those into a

1118
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,680
space like imagine if it was that easy

1119
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,839
and in all of these cases there's no

1120
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:16,359
website to go to there's nobody to spin

1121
00:47:12,839 --> 00:47:19,640
up a web server you don't need all of

1122
00:47:16,359 --> 00:47:24,520
that intermediary capacity to create the

1123
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:31,760
social space for doing this particular

1124
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:35,640
activity that is what the weave does and

1125
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:37,359
provides so in the same way that the web

1126
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:40,040
you can use a web browser where you

1127
00:47:37,359 --> 00:47:42,480
might use Firefox or Chrome to get

1128
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:46,240
access to the web and all this materials

1129
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:47,839
in the weave we we call it a frame like

1130
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:49,520
there's a web browser and there's a

1131
00:47:47,839 --> 00:47:50,960
weave frame that allows you to start

1132
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:53,040
playing this game together and the first

1133
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:55,359
frame that we built we're calling Moss

1134
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:57,599
just because Moss is a soft space to

1135
00:47:55,359 --> 00:47:59,680
land and it's beautiful and itat creates

1136
00:47:57,599 --> 00:48:01,000
surface area for interaction so Moss is

1137
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:04,160
a place where you can go and you can

1138
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:06,839
spin up a group and you can pick tools

1139
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:08,280
so the group is a space of being who are

1140
00:48:06,839 --> 00:48:10,359
we who are the people who are in there

1141
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,559
you can add people into the group and

1142
00:48:10,359 --> 00:48:15,559
then you can also add in tools which

1143
00:48:12,559 --> 00:48:18,319
each one of them is a small unit of

1144
00:48:15,559 --> 00:48:20,559
Rules of Engagement that's what we do

1145
00:48:18,319 --> 00:48:24,200
together and you can pull those tools

1146
00:48:20,559 --> 00:48:26,160
from libraries which is also a rule a

1147
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,359
space of Rules of Engagement because in

1148
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,839
those libraries

1149
00:48:27,359 --> 00:48:32,280
there's a way of saying I like this one

1150
00:48:29,839 --> 00:48:34,079
thumbs up there's a way of curating and

1151
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,880
moderating what's in the library because

1152
00:48:34,079 --> 00:48:39,319
just having a bunch of crap in there

1153
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:42,359
wouldn't work well so you see these are

1154
00:48:39,319 --> 00:48:45,680
weaving together the types of ways in

1155
00:48:42,359 --> 00:48:48,920
which we create social fabric we are

1156
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:51,599
together we do together in teaming in

1157
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:53,839
small groups and then we have spaces

1158
00:48:51,599 --> 00:48:56,240
where across all groups we also have

1159
00:48:53,839 --> 00:48:58,400
resources and things that we want to um

1160
00:48:56,240 --> 00:49:00,400
participate in libraries are one but

1161
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:03,359
there are also sources of things like

1162
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:07,799
equivalent to the Wikipedia there will

1163
00:49:03,359 --> 00:49:10,119
be Rules of Engagement for sharing

1164
00:49:07,799 --> 00:49:12,839
knowledge that again don't need to be

1165
00:49:10,119 --> 00:49:15,760
held by Central servers I've spun it up

1166
00:49:12,839 --> 00:49:17,640
in my family to be able to do planning

1167
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:20,280
at the family level

1168
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:22,000
and there's no web server out there that

1169
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,680
I'm have to go set up or anything like

1170
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,799
that I just we put it on our two

1171
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:28,880
computers and boink it's working and we

1172
00:49:25,799 --> 00:49:33,160
can like do our little planning board or

1173
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:36,119
have a little chat it's pretty

1174
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:37,720
exciting one of the awesome things that

1175
00:49:36,119 --> 00:49:41,520
the weave

1176
00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:43,640
affords is actual transclusion what is

1177
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:48,280
transclusion transclusion is when you

1178
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:52,640
can take an element of one tool one bit

1179
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:55,640
of tooling and you can include it inside

1180
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:57,799
another bit of tooling so the way we

1181
00:49:55,640 --> 00:50:00,319
have it the way it works is that when

1182
00:49:57,799 --> 00:50:03,240
you're a tool Builder what you do is you

1183
00:50:00,319 --> 00:50:05,720
build assets so let's take the example

1184
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:08,559
of a conbine board in a conbine board

1185
00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:10,359
you have the board with your different

1186
00:50:08,559 --> 00:50:14,640
columns

1187
00:50:10,359 --> 00:50:16,000
backlog to be prioritized doing and done

1188
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:18,520
so you have the columns and then you

1189
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:20,119
also have the cards all three of those

1190
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:24,359
can be

1191
00:50:20,119 --> 00:50:27,040
assets an asset can then be taken and

1192
00:50:24,359 --> 00:50:28,920
transcluded into any other place where

1193
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:31,799
there's an attachment point in any other

1194
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:34,160
tool so that means if I have a chat

1195
00:50:31,799 --> 00:50:36,040
stream and I'm like how are we doing and

1196
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:38,079
preparing for the interview and here's

1197
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:40,160
the conon card and I can transclude it

1198
00:50:38,079 --> 00:50:42,520
right in there so you can check off the

1199
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:45,040
check marks that are inside that card

1200
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:47,240
that is something that currently cannot

1201
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:49,160
be done well in the web it can be done a

1202
00:50:47,240 --> 00:50:52,640
little bit people have the feeling of I

1203
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:55,880
can transclude and embed a YouTube

1204
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:58,160
video but it is not built into the

1205
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,839
protocol that that's how you do

1206
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,079
everything there's people are going to

1207
00:50:59,839 --> 00:51:02,640
argue with me say hey that's what an

1208
00:51:01,079 --> 00:51:04,720
iframe is an if frame lets me put

1209
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:09,240
anything anywhere I want but it's not

1210
00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:12,960
the same if the the whole fabric of the

1211
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:14,680
Rules of Engagement are set up such that

1212
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,680
you can create these little bits of

1213
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,760
assets as a as a coherent unit and

1214
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:21,520
attach them wherever you want in any

1215
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:24,799
other um space that you're a part of so

1216
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:26,160
that is a really I'm just what that's

1217
00:51:24,799 --> 00:51:29,559
looking like and the utility that comes

1218
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:32,240
out of that the composable capacity is

1219
00:51:29,559 --> 00:51:34,160
astronomical it's really pretty great in

1220
00:51:32,240 --> 00:51:35,960
the current world when you want to

1221
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:39,040
include something from one place into

1222
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:41,200
another the web site developer has to

1223
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:44,640
create what are called Integrations and

1224
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:47,200
so an integration often is what you pay

1225
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:50,359
for so you pay for the capacity to

1226
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:52,960
integrate in your Trello board a slack

1227
00:51:50,359 --> 00:51:55,520
conversation or vice versa slack does an

1228
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:58,960
integration and this requires

1229
00:51:55,520 --> 00:52:00,880
communication between business entities

1230
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:04,079
who are saying this is how you do this

1231
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:06,480
or very careful crafting of an API and

1232
00:52:04,079 --> 00:52:09,000
usually then also authentication

1233
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:12,280
mechanisms that allow you to be able to

1234
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:14,599
get access to your slack group inside

1235
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:18,200
your T telegram group or inside your

1236
00:52:14,599 --> 00:52:19,720
Trello board that is a complex process

1237
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:22,920
and is usually Again part of what you

1238
00:52:19,720 --> 00:52:25,200
pay for in the weave Integrations are

1239
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:27,480
integrated right that is actually what

1240
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:29,359
it does for you all already and so

1241
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:32,160
transcluding anything and anything else

1242
00:52:29,359 --> 00:52:34,240
is automatic when you build a weave tool

1243
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:36,440
and you create the the coherent asset

1244
00:52:34,240 --> 00:52:39,280
units they will be automatically

1245
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:42,480
transable in anything else there is no

1246
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:45,640
extra step of creating an

1247
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:49,240
integration so I'm really excited

1248
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:51,160
because we have built so far a early

1249
00:52:49,240 --> 00:52:55,359
beta early Alpha whatever you want to

1250
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:57,559
call it nowadays version of moss and you

1251
00:52:55,359 --> 00:52:59,440
can spin up a group in inside moss and

1252
00:52:57,559 --> 00:53:01,760
we we use it for the development of moss

1253
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:04,920
itself and our team and inside that

1254
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:07,880
group you can add in all kinds of

1255
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:09,480
different tools right now we have a

1256
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:13,040
video chat thing that we use for our

1257
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:16,119
meetings we have a text chat that's kind

1258
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:17,680
of like slack or mattermost or many of

1259
00:53:16,119 --> 00:53:20,799
the other for being able to do

1260
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:23,040
asynchronous texting together we have a

1261
00:53:20,799 --> 00:53:25,400
conon board we have a thing that's like

1262
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:27,799
Google docs for typing out documents and

1263
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:30,640
so and adding these adding new tools new

1264
00:53:27,799 --> 00:53:32,400
capacities to the group and adding that

1265
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:35,079
into the library that all groups can

1266
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:36,920
choose from is relatively simple so

1267
00:53:35,079 --> 00:53:38,680
that's growing very quickly we have some

1268
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,400
of them some of these tools that are

1269
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:42,040
about governance about finding out

1270
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:45,119
creating alignment some that are for

1271
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:46,599
planning um creating dependency trees so

1272
00:53:45,119 --> 00:53:51,200
all kinds of

1273
00:53:46,599 --> 00:53:53,160
tools and what's super cool about it is

1274
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:56,839
that not only can you create those

1275
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:59,839
little tools but parts of the tools you

1276
00:53:56,839 --> 00:54:03,520
can embed in other parts of the

1277
00:53:59,839 --> 00:54:04,960
tools what does that mean it means that

1278
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:08,920
if you're a person who's building a

1279
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:10,920
video chat tool you don't have to have

1280
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:12,480
build the commenting one you can just

1281
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:15,280
drop in a comment thread from your

1282
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:17,319
commenting tool from your chat tool it

1283
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:21,319
means that you don't have to say oh

1284
00:54:17,319 --> 00:54:24,359
wouldn't it be nice if our video chat

1285
00:54:21,319 --> 00:54:27,319
system had collaborative text editing in

1286
00:54:24,359 --> 00:54:30,520
it and we have to add that in it too

1287
00:54:27,319 --> 00:54:32,040
no there's an unnamed uh tool that has

1288
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:33,920
just done that I'm not going to say its

1289
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,280
name but you don't have to do that in

1290
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,280
this context because it already exists

1291
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:39,280
you can just drop it into your group so

1292
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:41,359
the consequences of creating an

1293
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,920
ecosystem for building software shifts

1294
00:54:41,359 --> 00:54:44,599
as a result of that and we're already

1295
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:48,119
seeing the power of that in just using

1296
00:54:44,599 --> 00:54:52,480
it for our own teams it's really cool

1297
00:54:48,119 --> 00:54:55,599
how many times have you had this feeling

1298
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:57,640
of I'm using this tool and they changed

1299
00:54:55,599 --> 00:55:00,839
it out from under

1300
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:03,599
me or how many times have you felt if I

1301
00:55:00,839 --> 00:55:05,520
could only I just love this this I love

1302
00:55:03,599 --> 00:55:07,319
the way this tool works and I like how I

1303
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:09,400
type in it if I could only type my

1304
00:55:07,319 --> 00:55:12,480
documents using this my favorite editor

1305
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:14,839
and put it here but I can't because they

1306
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,720
didn't do it for me it doesn't exist on

1307
00:55:14,839 --> 00:55:19,640
the

1308
00:55:15,720 --> 00:55:21,760
website well in this Frame there's no

1309
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:24,119
you're not you're not sending to an

1310
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:26,079
intermediary the capacity to do your

1311
00:55:24,119 --> 00:55:28,839
Rules of Engagement Rules of Engagement

1312
00:55:26,079 --> 00:55:30,720
are I like to type text editor boxes I

1313
00:55:28,839 --> 00:55:33,839
like to do those are a form of rules and

1314
00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:36,880
engagement that's not held out in the

1315
00:55:33,839 --> 00:55:40,280
intermediary it is assembled by the

1316
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:43,520
group who wants to use that so what it

1317
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:46,079
feels like is they don't have control

1318
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:48,480
over how this looks and how it feels I

1319
00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:50,520
can put it together myself now not

1320
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,839
everybody in your team or your group is

1321
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,440
going to do that you're going to have

1322
00:55:51,839 --> 00:55:56,039
people who love to do that and assemble

1323
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,760
that for you but it's done at your group

1324
00:55:56,039 --> 00:55:59,520
level

1325
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:02,480
it's not done at the app level so the

1326
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:05,680
way of thinking about that is The Silo

1327
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:07,839
which right now is the web

1328
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:09,480
app into which the people who are

1329
00:56:07,839 --> 00:56:11,640
building the web app have to put in

1330
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:13,400
everything and so you see all of these

1331
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:15,599
collaborative tools that have all the

1332
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:19,359
same things in it it's the kitchen syn

1333
00:56:15,599 --> 00:56:22,839
ification of each one of them that

1334
00:56:19,359 --> 00:56:25,839
Silo can be thankfully removed into the

1335
00:56:22,839 --> 00:56:29,000
parts where the group gets to decide how

1336
00:56:25,839 --> 00:56:31,200
it want wants its collection of doing to

1337
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:33,799
look like and feel

1338
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:35,920
like I mean so this totally changes the

1339
00:56:33,799 --> 00:56:37,960
Dynamics of building software right

1340
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:40,480
because what we end up thinking about is

1341
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:42,280
how to make the parts excellent because

1342
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:45,039
we know that the groups are going to

1343
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:46,559
assemble the parts it's not me the

1344
00:56:45,039 --> 00:56:48,440
developer of the app who's assembling

1345
00:56:46,559 --> 00:56:51,559
the parts the group gets to assemble the

1346
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:53,319
parts so from the perspective of the

1347
00:56:51,559 --> 00:56:55,760
group who's

1348
00:56:53,319 --> 00:56:57,119
using this collection of tools that are

1349
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,319
assembled

1350
00:56:57,119 --> 00:57:00,880
they can just go look at what are the

1351
00:56:58,319 --> 00:57:02,880
parts that I can drop in here instantly

1352
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,960
add that in they don't have to submit a

1353
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:07,520
a request and say could you please add

1354
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:10,880
into my miror board the ability to do

1355
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:13,480
voting like no voting can just be its

1356
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:15,319
own component and then you can attach it

1357
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,920
where you need it people have been

1358
00:57:15,319 --> 00:57:20,319
trying to do this for a long long time

1359
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:22,319
by the way it's not a new thing it but

1360
00:57:20,319 --> 00:57:26,680
the thing is it's really really hard to

1361
00:57:22,319 --> 00:57:29,799
do until you have an underlying capacity

1362
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:31,599
to have rules of engagement be held by

1363
00:57:29,799 --> 00:57:33,720
the infrastructure instead of having to

1364
00:57:31,599 --> 00:57:35,920
have the Rules of Engagement held by an

1365
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:37,200
intermediary so as soon as you flip to

1366
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,839
that other model then it becomes

1367
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:40,599
possible people have been trying to make

1368
00:57:38,839 --> 00:57:42,480
it cheap to send messages for a long

1369
00:57:40,599 --> 00:57:44,880
time it wasn't that expensive a stamp

1370
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:46,240
you can do that it's awesome but it's

1371
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,760
really different when it doesn't work

1372
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:51,280
that way when all of a sudden sending

1373
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:54,319
messages is just owning a computer same

1374
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:56,680
thing with this capacity to collaborate

1375
00:57:54,319 --> 00:57:59,520
to work together to engage engage in

1376
00:57:56,680 --> 00:58:01,119
some form of Rules of Engagement and I I

1377
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:03,880
really do want to stress that this isn't

1378
00:58:01,119 --> 00:58:06,400
just about teams playing together there

1379
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:09,559
are all kinds of Rules of Engagement

1380
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:11,880
where like tracking value together

1381
00:58:09,559 --> 00:58:16,319
across an

1382
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:18,319
ecosystem doing economic activity

1383
00:58:16,319 --> 00:58:20,680
together I'm starting there I'm not

1384
00:58:18,319 --> 00:58:23,760
saying money because money is just one

1385
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:26,119
solution for how do we do economic

1386
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:29,160
activity together how do we watch how

1387
00:58:26,119 --> 00:58:31,640
how the things we produce are become

1388
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:35,119
made available and can be transformed by

1389
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:39,119
another entity in the value chain and

1390
00:58:35,119 --> 00:58:41,760
can we track that and can we create this

1391
00:58:39,119 --> 00:58:44,079
network of flows of value together with

1392
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:47,480
whatever set of incentives or

1393
00:58:44,079 --> 00:58:49,839
reciprocity or

1394
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:51,160
coordination that is also sets of Rules

1395
00:58:49,839 --> 00:58:52,839
of Engagement that aren't just about

1396
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:54,760
creating a team here or a team there and

1397
00:58:52,839 --> 00:58:57,160
then using your video chat inside that

1398
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:59,000
team so in the Hudson Valley there's a

1399
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:01,119
group called The New York textile

1400
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:04,799
collaborative I believe and they are

1401
00:59:01,119 --> 00:59:08,280
very interested in being able to weave

1402
00:59:04,799 --> 00:59:10,880
together the the supply chain of local

1403
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:13,200
farmers producing wool to getting the

1404
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:15,319
wool carted to getting it spun to be

1405
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:18,559
getting it turned into yarn to moving

1406
00:59:15,319 --> 00:59:21,400
that and make that available to um

1407
00:59:18,559 --> 00:59:23,720
designers to do sweaters or other types

1408
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:25,359
of garments to getting that to the

1409
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:27,200
knitting machines to getting that out

1410
00:59:25,359 --> 00:59:29,799
into the into to the hands of uh

1411
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:32,200
consumers that's a whole flow of value

1412
00:59:29,799 --> 00:59:34,200
across an ecosystem and they are wanting

1413
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:36,200
to use the weave for a specific

1414
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:38,440
application that's that's been built to

1415
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:41,400
actually track that using what's called

1416
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:43,720
Rea which is a form of accounting that

1417
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:45,760
is not about Enterprise accounting which

1418
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:47,720
is what we have in double um Double

1419
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:49,640
Entry bookkeeping but instead using this

1420
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:52,240
other form of accounting that was

1421
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:55,039
invented in the quite a while ago that's

1422
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:57,200
basically cross Enterprise accounting

1423
00:59:55,039 --> 01:00:00,520
that tool is a available to be there's

1424
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:03,440
an experimental tool to be used by them

1425
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:05,760
um and I'm really excited about that one

1426
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:09,280
the stage we are at right now is that we

1427
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:11,559
can use it ourselves and there are a few

1428
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:15,440
early players who are using it in their

1429
01:00:11,559 --> 01:00:18,240
own offices and groups who are early

1430
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:21,240
testers but this is the phase where we

1431
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:23,680
don't know how it should look and how it

1432
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:27,280
should be built and so we are very

1433
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:29,200
excited to cocreate the tool so that it

1434
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:32,200
actually works for people who want to

1435
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:34,480
use it and that's our our goal our goal

1436
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:36,440
is to land the initial groups of people

1437
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:38,200
who are willing to take some of the pain

1438
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:41,520
of using a tool like this in their early

1439
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:44,400
days for the benefit that it provides

1440
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:48,920
and co-build it with

1441
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:48,920
them yeah I think it's fair to say

1442
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:57,559
that what I'm hoping that this provides

1443
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:59,119
is a different way of operating together

1444
01:00:57,559 --> 01:01:01,359
people like to say a different operating

1445
01:00:59,119 --> 01:01:02,799
system but I'm a little afraid of using

1446
01:01:01,359 --> 01:01:04,319
uh like taking the operating system

1447
01:01:02,799 --> 01:01:06,880
metaphor from computers and applying

1448
01:01:04,319 --> 01:01:09,079
that because it feels a little I don't

1449
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:11,640
know but it's also good right so but the

1450
01:01:09,079 --> 01:01:14,400
thing is how we operate together where

1451
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:19,599
the capacity for operating together

1452
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:22,640
holds at its core our relational fabric

1453
01:01:19,599 --> 01:01:26,000
how we can relate with each other I have

1454
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:28,280
the experience that many people are suff

1455
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:31,799
suffering from the hyper

1456
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:34,319
individuality of American culture and

1457
01:01:31,799 --> 01:01:39,920
also there are many people who are very

1458
01:01:34,319 --> 01:01:43,599
proud of the individual agency of my

1459
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:45,880
freedom and there is a kind of dignity

1460
01:01:43,599 --> 01:01:49,359
and Power in that like

1461
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:50,680
I'm I get to act I get to have agency

1462
01:01:49,359 --> 01:01:52,160
and then I watch The Suffering that

1463
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:54,160
people have of disconnectedness of

1464
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:55,119
families of feeling afraid to let their

1465
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:58,480
children go and play in their

1466
01:01:55,119 --> 01:02:01,480
neighborhood and all

1467
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:05,079
like it's a crazy contradiction to me it

1468
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:08,119
seems like people want their autonomy

1469
01:02:05,079 --> 01:02:10,480
and their individuality they're

1470
01:02:08,119 --> 01:02:12,480
so they're holding that tightly I can

1471
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:15,400
feel myself holding that tightly I want

1472
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:17,880
my freedom to be an individual agent and

1473
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:20,799
act in the world and I suffer from the

1474
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:24,079
fact that I'm an individual agent who

1475
01:02:20,799 --> 01:02:26,359
has to go and choose from so many of the

1476
01:02:24,079 --> 01:02:28,279
same things in the super Market that

1477
01:02:26,359 --> 01:02:31,240
have no difference and that's pushed on

1478
01:02:28,279 --> 01:02:34,640
me as if it was Choice rather than a

1479
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:38,000
shallow kind of agency and so it's hard

1480
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:40,799
it's hard to know what how to hold that

1481
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:43,039
but it feels to me like what has

1482
01:02:40,799 --> 01:02:47,640
happened to us

1483
01:02:43,039 --> 01:02:51,559
is some kind of social fabric that is

1484
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:54,319
broken that doesn't take the

1485
01:02:51,559 --> 01:02:57,799
relational necessity of humans to be

1486
01:02:54,319 --> 01:02:59,960
able to be together in deep aliveness

1487
01:02:57,799 --> 01:03:04,440
and has instead stacked us on top of

1488
01:02:59,960 --> 01:03:08,760
each other in a hierarchy of

1489
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:08,760
value and pitted us against each

1490
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:16,760
other in ways that are just

1491
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:16,760
painful just what it feels like to

1492
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:22,400
me I got to be afraid of you coming

1493
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:24,960
across the

1494
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:26,760
border and then and then it's crazy then

1495
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:29,119
you have a natural disaster and we care

1496
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:32,760
for each other we just reach out and

1497
01:03:29,119 --> 01:03:32,760
care and we do that

1498
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:37,799
anyways even though right next the next

1499
01:03:35,359 --> 01:03:38,839
thing we're doing is we're out in the

1500
01:03:37,799 --> 01:03:41,520
market

1501
01:03:38,839 --> 01:03:43,440
competing as if reality were're always

1502
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:46,039
Cut

1503
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:49,559
Throat no it's kind of I like the social

1504
01:03:46,039 --> 01:03:53,200
fabric is constructed for that so we

1505
01:03:49,559 --> 01:03:54,960
think it's that way it's a side effect

1506
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:58,480
like the thing that's Landing for me as

1507
01:03:54,960 --> 01:04:01,039
the most challenging in getting to this

1508
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:03,200
goal is is actually the technical

1509
01:04:01,039 --> 01:04:04,440
challenge it's incredibly difficult to

1510
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:08,520
get it

1511
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:12,520
right like technically for you to be

1512
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:14,720
able to run a system where the Rules of

1513
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:17,640
Engagement are held

1514
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:20,039
collectively and the playing by the

1515
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:22,480
rules is also held

1516
01:04:20,039 --> 01:04:24,440
collectively without resorting to a

1517
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:27,119
central Authority a central place to go

1518
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:28,839
put the data like think about this as a

1519
01:04:27,119 --> 01:04:32,000
technical challenge how do you actually

1520
01:04:28,839 --> 01:04:34,599
make it be the case that you get the the

1521
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:36,319
actions that people take in any set of

1522
01:04:34,599 --> 01:04:38,599
rules of engagement the trans the

1523
01:04:36,319 --> 01:04:40,799
monetary transaction I want to transact

1524
01:04:38,599 --> 01:04:42,400
with you the I'm going to enter a piece

1525
01:04:40,799 --> 01:04:44,960
of text into a document that you're also

1526
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:47,039
entering in at the same time right when

1527
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:49,520
you don't have somebody in the in the

1528
01:04:47,039 --> 01:04:51,680
middle to say this is the reality this

1529
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:53,680
is what it looks like that's technically

1530
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:54,960
really challenging I mean there's names

1531
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:57,000
for this it's called the Byzantine

1532
01:04:54,960 --> 01:05:00,160
generals problem in some parts of the

1533
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:02,520
literature and our way of dealing with

1534
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:04,640
that well we have a technical solution

1535
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:07,039
for it but it's it's hard to land and

1536
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:09,200
get it to really work right like we know

1537
01:05:07,039 --> 01:05:10,799
how it will work we know theoretically

1538
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:13,520
how it will work but actually getting

1539
01:05:10,799 --> 01:05:16,799
the details exactly right so it does

1540
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:19,760
it's been hard it's taken many

1541
01:05:16,799 --> 01:05:21,160
years that's one of the challenges there

1542
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:24,079
there's something that needs to be said

1543
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:27,440
about the Social Challenges

1544
01:05:24,079 --> 01:05:29,880
like so one of the challenges of getting

1545
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:32,079
this to work this way is that there are

1546
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:34,520
people who are

1547
01:05:32,079 --> 01:05:36,319
so

1548
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:40,039
clearly

1549
01:05:36,319 --> 01:05:43,200
aligned with the with the fact that the

1550
01:05:40,039 --> 01:05:45,279
way the world is operating is completely

1551
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:46,559
wrong it's a dead end it's

1552
01:05:45,279 --> 01:05:50,160
self-terminating

1553
01:05:46,559 --> 01:05:51,960
and they are like oh this is right this

1554
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:58,079
is the way it needs to

1555
01:05:51,960 --> 01:06:00,720
go and then including myself and then I

1556
01:05:58,079 --> 01:06:02,559
prematurely try to make it work in some

1557
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:07,039
way that's beyond the way it works right

1558
01:06:02,559 --> 01:06:10,160
now that can't actually be held

1559
01:06:07,039 --> 01:06:11,720
yet you know and this includes like the

1560
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:14,200
usual question is well how are you

1561
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:16,559
paying for it how are you funding it

1562
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:18,799
right well so we figure out what

1563
01:06:16,559 --> 01:06:21,520
mechanisms of funding but then that

1564
01:06:18,799 --> 01:06:24,039
brings in all of the energy of the

1565
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:25,760
supremacy hierarchies and the power

1566
01:06:24,039 --> 01:06:28,319
dynamics that are built into our current

1567
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:30,359
system at scale that actually are kind

1568
01:06:28,319 --> 01:06:32,839
of coherent they work but that's the

1569
01:06:30,359 --> 01:06:35,200
part that makes people feel horrible

1570
01:06:32,839 --> 01:06:37,160
they make people feel like tools and

1571
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:40,079
they feel alienated and so the context

1572
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:41,400
of working together feels bad and if

1573
01:06:40,079 --> 01:06:43,200
part of what we're looking for is a

1574
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:45,559
context of working together that just

1575
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:47,599
feels better and More Alive and we're

1576
01:06:45,559 --> 01:06:50,079
not there yet and we know we might get

1577
01:06:47,599 --> 01:06:51,520
there it feels doubly bad because you're

1578
01:06:50,079 --> 01:06:53,960
supposed to be able to live in this

1579
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:55,839
great way you like like there's the the

1580
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:58,279
I could almost get there and so then you

1581
01:06:55,839 --> 01:07:00,400
build something and somebody does a move

1582
01:06:58,279 --> 01:07:02,240
like I might do a move and have done a

1583
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:03,839
move that is power over somebody else

1584
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:07,279
and they're like that sucks how could

1585
01:07:03,839 --> 01:07:11,079
you do that you're holding this ideals

1586
01:07:07,279 --> 01:07:14,240
yeah that's a challenge feels really

1587
01:07:11,079 --> 01:07:16,119
bad to get that kind of thing

1588
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:18,319
wrong I I don't know may it's a

1589
01:07:16,119 --> 01:07:19,839
longwinded of of way of saying one of

1590
01:07:18,319 --> 01:07:21,000
the challenges is that you have ideals

1591
01:07:19,839 --> 01:07:21,990
and you can't live up to them and then

1592
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:24,520
you disappoint

1593
01:07:21,990 --> 01:07:27,200
[Music]

1594
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:30,400
people and that really

1595
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:35,359
hurts so one of the big challenges in

1596
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:37,920
this work is crossing thresholds of

1597
01:07:35,359 --> 01:07:40,279
usability it feels like the threshold of

1598
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:42,000
usability is just around the corner and

1599
01:07:40,279 --> 01:07:45,039
then you cross it and it turns out that

1600
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:48,000
there's another issue that makes the

1601
01:07:45,039 --> 01:07:49,680
tooling unusable and so you can have it

1602
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:50,960
at some low level the thing is finally

1603
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:54,319
working right but then the user

1604
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:57,720
interface is like terrible or you're

1605
01:07:54,319 --> 01:08:00,160
missing some other piece

1606
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:02,359
so and then it's very easy to make

1607
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:05,200
mistakes around thinking that there are

1608
01:08:02,359 --> 01:08:08,160
two that you need too many things to

1609
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:09,920
cross the threshold of usability so that

1610
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:12,000
advice of making it as simple as

1611
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:16,759
possible but no

1612
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:19,719
simpler is so difficult because often

1613
01:08:16,759 --> 01:08:21,560
times we make it simpler than is

1614
01:08:19,719 --> 01:08:23,719
possible for it to be

1615
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:25,719
successful because it's so challenging

1616
01:08:23,719 --> 01:08:27,719
to make make that one threshold and then

1617
01:08:25,719 --> 01:08:29,000
other times we're like no for it to work

1618
01:08:27,719 --> 01:08:31,080
we have to have all these things which

1619
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:33,319
turn out to be baloney you only needed

1620
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:37,600
to have one thing so Landing as simple

1621
01:08:33,319 --> 01:08:41,920
as possible but no simpler is a huge

1622
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:44,080
challenge so many people

1623
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:47,839
have had this Insight shared this

1624
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:50,960
Insight that that the tools that we use

1625
01:08:47,839 --> 01:08:52,600
shape us as much as we shape the world

1626
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:55,600
with the tools that we

1627
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:57,759
use and of course the you know the usual

1628
01:08:55,600 --> 01:09:01,040
one is if you have a hammer every

1629
01:08:57,759 --> 01:09:04,359
problem is a nail to me I think the it's

1630
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:06,440
just so clear right now how we are being

1631
01:09:04,359 --> 01:09:10,759
shaped by the tool that is called the

1632
01:09:06,440 --> 01:09:13,520
web like that tool is shaping political

1633
01:09:10,759 --> 01:09:16,640
discourse and it's shaping it because of

1634
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:20,719
its structure right its structure is

1635
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:22,319
that we go to Facebook to find out about

1636
01:09:20,719 --> 01:09:24,199
what our families are doing but in the

1637
01:09:22,319 --> 01:09:27,000
meantime we get Doom scrolled and we get

1638
01:09:24,199 --> 01:09:31,000
ads placed plac in there so we become a

1639
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:33,159
product and it's like it's structural

1640
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:34,839
there's a structural reality that

1641
01:09:33,159 --> 01:09:36,159
because the value of being able to

1642
01:09:34,839 --> 01:09:38,359
connect with our family and know what

1643
01:09:36,159 --> 01:09:40,400
our friends and family care about is

1644
01:09:38,359 --> 01:09:43,120
being held by an intermediary who gives

1645
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:44,640
that to us for free in exchange for them

1646
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:46,839
being able to pop a couple of things

1647
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:48,159
into our mind is a way that The

1648
01:09:46,839 --> 01:09:51,000
Narrative of the world is being

1649
01:09:48,159 --> 01:09:53,319
constructed in our minds we are being

1650
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:55,480
shaped by the fact that we use this tool

1651
01:09:53,319 --> 01:09:56,560
to learn about our friends and family

1652
01:09:55,480 --> 01:10:00,440
for

1653
01:09:56,560 --> 01:10:05,320
free because our attention gets taken by

1654
01:10:00,440 --> 01:10:08,239
advertisers for products advertisers for

1655
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:11,560
political attention and we know all

1656
01:10:08,239 --> 01:10:14,560
about how foreign interests are

1657
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:17,120
controlling your kids by Tik Tock we are

1658
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:19,360
going to make a law against that yeah

1659
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:21,280
maybe that might actually be really true

1660
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:22,880
but is it really the foreign interest

1661
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:24,880
it's like who's actually doing that

1662
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:27,800
manipulation with those tools and it's

1663
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:31,440
the structure of the tool that leads to

1664
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:33,679
us being changed in that way so it

1665
01:10:31,440 --> 01:10:36,560
behooves us to pay a lot of attention to

1666
01:10:33,679 --> 01:10:38,320
the structure of the tool similarly if

1667
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:40,120
you are sending messages and you have to

1668
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:43,000
pay a per unit cost and somebody has

1669
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:44,880
control over that cost and also can say

1670
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:47,080
what you are or not allowed to send in a

1671
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:48,880
package and that first class mail

1672
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:50,840
letters can only be sent through the US

1673
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:52,040
Postal System they may not be sent

1674
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:54,719
through any other system there's a

1675
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:55,760
monopoly on that why oh get into

1676
01:10:54,719 --> 01:10:57,480
conspiracy

1677
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:59,440
no it's not that it's like there are

1678
01:10:57,480 --> 01:11:01,520
these consequences to what happens by

1679
01:10:59,440 --> 01:11:03,040
the rules of having an intermediary be

1680
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:05,360
able to take advantage of a specific

1681
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:08,320
capacity or is necessary for the

1682
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:11,719
capacity to occur our tools shape us

1683
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:14,600
yeah especially in the realm of creating

1684
01:11:11,719 --> 01:11:17,520
social Fabric in creating the Rules of

1685
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:20,960
Engagement the people who want to play a

1686
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:23,480
certain way if they must always have

1687
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:23,480
that be

1688
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:28,000
intermediated there will be consequences

1689
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:29,920
I'm not saying what they will be there

1690
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:32,120
can be all kinds of consequences maybe

1691
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:34,080
it's good consequences because that will

1692
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:36,199
be somebody's checking to make sure that

1693
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:41,120
people aren't playing together in bad

1694
01:11:36,199 --> 01:11:44,239
ways by The Wider society's rules okay

1695
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:46,880
but also

1696
01:11:44,239 --> 01:11:49,600
not all of the ways that we might be

1697
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:52,440
able to play together and collaborate

1698
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:56,639
and solve our problems without having to

1699
01:11:52,440 --> 01:11:56,639
resort to the intermediary

1700
01:11:57,040 --> 01:12:01,920
are disallowed as a

1701
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:04,360
result there's this fascinating thing in

1702
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:07,520
this realm of

1703
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:10,000
sociality it's called

1704
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:12,880
deviant

1705
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:15,600
right what is considered socially

1706
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:18,920
deviant how much

1707
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:21,400
variety can the society handle and still

1708
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:23,360
say coherent and healthy together the

1709
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:26,199
more deviant you can hold and still stay

1710
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:27,840
coherent the better if you can't remain

1711
01:12:26,199 --> 01:12:29,360
coherent if you start falling apart at

1712
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:31,520
the seams because there's too much

1713
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:33,480
deviant all right there's a problem

1714
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:36,080
there but the more you can handle the

1715
01:12:33,480 --> 01:12:38,320
more internal complexity you can embody

1716
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:40,760
the more you will be able to withstand

1717
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:43,239
and adapt in times of difficulty and

1718
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:45,520
change the more that's allowed the more

1719
01:12:43,239 --> 01:12:47,920
creativity that's possible it feels to

1720
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:51,600
me like the more aliveness will be

1721
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:54,880
inside that body its degree of

1722
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:57,080
complexity is held and Alive because of

1723
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:59,840
how how much things can be different

1724
01:12:57,080 --> 01:13:02,520
from each other while still Co being

1725
01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:06,080
coherent and playing together Freedom

1726
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:09,960
accountability belonging you get to be

1727
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:11,320
yourself in a context of accountability

1728
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:14,800
to

1729
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:17,740
others you therefore belong what a

1730
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:22,229
positive spiral up

1731
01:13:17,740 --> 01:13:22,229
[Music]